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HUGE difference native environment between 2.2.1 and 2.3

It looks that all native things have been changed.

What happend? What's wrong in Samsung?

 

I understand they revised native framework to improve performance and scalability, but how they take responsibility of developer who are currently working in 2.2.1 native environment?

They will have to change EVERYTHING.

 

SAMSUNG should NOT have used BADA native environment...

Responses

18 Replies
Bob Summerwill

I have asked this question on the General mailing list:

    https://lists.tizen.org/pipermail/general/2014-October/003204.html

The mailing lists and the Forums are NOT different views onto the same content, and most of the developers are using the mailing lists, not these Forums.   That often means that nobody "from inside Tizen" will reply to questions here.

From what I can see, you are correct.    They appear to have made a huge set of API changes with no prior warning.

 

Cheers,

Bob Summerwill, Kitsilano Software

http://kitsilanosoftware.com

 

Marco Buettner

The web application section has also bigger changes... With any bigger version Samsung changes many things.... UI, APIs... Tizen is still in developing process... I hope 2.3 will the begin of minor changes for future updates.. But 3.0 is also on the way...

Patrick Mortara

They can't be serious with that! What are they expecting us to do? Reprogram all our native apps from scratch????

Please, can someone shed some light into this issue?

Jirka Prazak

These are not mere changes, it is a complete removal of the OSP framework and replacing it with low level C API, so technically even the programming language has changed.  Going back to C from C++ is like going back hundred years so I assume that the OSP framework will be still available as a framework and the low level C API will be just another set of APIs to use.  Can someone confirm this?

-Jirka

Geon Woo Kim

They even wrote "Porting Guide" in 2.3 SDK docs.

What they said is,   "The new API's application model is very similar to the one from the older version, so it is easy to adopt it."

 

"It is easy to adopt it."

"adopt" ?

 

They realized that OSP framework came from BADA was just sucks.

So they completely removed it.

 

Jirka Prazak

Well let's put it this way, from looking at the 2.3 native docs, the Bada framework is much easier to work with and much more modern than what is proposed.  It might not be Android or QT but is way better than calling some cryptically named functions that represent low level system calls...

-Jirka

Patrick Mortara

This 'porting guide' ist not very helpful, have you haver taken a closer look into it? It also don't matter wether someone finds the OSP Framework better or the EFL libs, the problem is: All of us who used OSP for their apps now have a huge amount of work to do in order to get these apps running on with SDK 2.3. OSP wasn't just the GUI stuff, it also covered for example Network Connections, Location-Services and a lot of other things we would have to rewrite now .... this is not what i would call 'easy to adopt'

Another problem with this: Who guarantees us that this is the last major API change? Maybe EFL get's dumped for QT in Tizen 3.0 and we have to start all over again. 

Mats Wichmann

To Marco: to clarify, in my opinion, the web api changes are evolutionary, not revolutionary, and it's a small evolution. The release notes, which don't show details unfortunately (see https://developer.tizen.org/tizen-2.3-beta-sdk-release-notes), just list affected areas, but it breaks down to about eight new API sets, all relatively small (from memory about 3-6 interfaces each), and changes to a few more sets than that, again quite small, like adding two or three calls to an existing area. There are no significant changes to existing interfaces, and no surprising removals (!).

 

Marco Buettner

new API != changed API ...

Yes the changes in WebApps not much critical as on native APIs but I have also to update APIs and UI... Maybe I need only 2-3 weeks to update it completly to 2.3... But I think for a "small" jump (2.2 to 2.3) the changes on native application are to high... for a bigger jump from 2.x to 3.0 it will be ok... But who can promise that 3.0 has not other changes of apis from 2.3?

Mats Wichmann

Right, I was just trying to propose that the web api change is within the range of normal evolution. The native api part... not so much.  I could claim, as I've done on one of the mailing lists, that the new native api is only new in the sense of "now supported, but was already in Tizen codebase", but that's no comfort to someone who was already developing to the old native API.  Perhaps worth reminding that Tizen has always been billed as an html5-first design.

/me now shuts up before saying something inappropriate :)

 

Nour Saffaf

That's very painful to me.. I have many apps to port ..all of them are native OSP ..

I have to port every line of code... !

At least give us Tizen 2.3 ROM for RD-PQ device... make my life easier !!

Jirka Prazak

According to Wichmann's post on the mailing lists, there will be an add-on SDK like HERE Maps so you can build and compile old OSP code to run on 2.3.  I guess it wont be supported in the future and wont be developed futher.  I cannot imagine they would completely remove it right now since that would pretty much mean half of the apps would need a total rewrite (not a port and I don't care what they call it, we are going from C++ to C APIs) which in turn would leave them with even less apps than they already have.  But then again, most people say Tizen is just a political tool so anything is possible.

Mats Wichmann

To be clear, I don't know what's happening there (SDK).  I was told the runtime library would be available as an add-on so existing apps could still be run, but don't have any detail how that will be delivered.  I've heard nothing about an add-on SDK, though it does sound like kind of a logical step to take, doesn't it?

 

Patrick Mortara

Yes, an Add-On-SDK would indeed be a logical step. I hope someone will give us a answer on that soon. Until then, i stop developing my existing Tizen Apps ....i will definitifly not port them to EFL until it is 100% inevitable.  

Geon Woo Kim
Add-on SDK for easily porting from old 2.2? But why did they write porting guide for developer who needs to rewrite 2.2 codes to 2.3? In my opinion, they gave up all of old apps to challenge new way to get performance improvement and etc. They might not care how many apps existed on Tizen market. How many apps there are, it is not problem to give up, because those are not as many as other markets like google or apple. But they should take responsibility old developer, that's why they wrote porting guide.
Nour Saffaf

I am confused. I hope there is add-on but I think Geon Woo Kim is right.

The market is full of native apps (bada ported apps). I don't know if Samsung is willing to give them up. I think there are 10-30k apps in the market already more than half are built with OSP bada c++ environment

I shall wait for now. I will study a bit about the new native development environment in case I have to rewrite all my apps.

Anyway, I read that Tizen 3.0 web apps api will be in bar with native api. We can port our native apps to web apps instead!

I think web apps are the main targets for Tizen. In the last Tizen Challenge, there were 10 x $50k extra prizes for web apps. That was a lot of money. Native apps are not promoted as much as the web apps. Web development environment is the only option in wearable and TV SDKs and probably in all future smart-home SDKs

Can we get Tizen 2.3 onRD-PQ or Samsung Z developer devices? Remote lab is not enough

Zoltan Puski

Changing a C++ code to JS/HTML5 is a real PITA.

MUCH worse than changing to C. Not an option for me. I have several, really complex native apps, fully built on OSP.
Now waiting, because cannot believe it will be just simple "removed".

Mats Wichmann

Tizen has always been billed as an html5-first platform, so this part is not new.

Changing a C++ app to html5 does not sound like a reasonable option to me either, but possibly converting it to use the new/old native API library might be at least possible.  The overall concepts presented by the OSP library are not that different to the ones in the 2.3 native API - the app framework is the same framework, and the database-using services like content, social and media were actually implemented in OSP by calling on services provided by this library, if I understood correctly when someone talked to me about that long ago (misunderstandings not out of the question).