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Why Tizen is crap and why I am abandoning it

Hi,

I’ve been developing for Tizen (Wearable, Web) now for more than 1.5 years and today I finally decided to stop any development and leave this crappy platform. The struggle was there from the beginning but now I’ve decided for myself that enough is enough. Here’s why Tizen is not a professional platform:

 

Implementation

Samsung tries to do everything in one platform, but the entire concept is not so sophisticated at all. It starts with different platforms (mobile, wearable) and web vs. native. Let me give the latest example: Since Tizen 2.3.2 widgets are now also supported with web apps. The problem is just that they are entirely useless as

-          The WidgetInstanceId’s are not persisted after a reboot (but they are with native or mobile!)

-          A widget cannot retrieve its own WidgetInstanceId (but it can with native or mobile!)

-          A XHR request can be POST or GET, but not PUT or DELETE (of course it makes sense to reduce capabilities for performance and power considerations, but limitations like this are just artificial)

-          Many more like system fonts do not get applied, white flickering upon activating etc. etc.

What I want to tell with that is that it’s nice to support web widgets, but all those bugs and restrictions make this ENTIRELY USELESS (unless you just want a widget with a static image?!?). Samsung has no concept about what they are doing nor are they testing it.

 

Documentation

I’ve already complained about this a year ago but the situation got even worse! For example there is documentation that is obviously not finished i.e when the documentation ends in the middle of a code example. But what actually is FATAL is that there is documentation that is entirely WRONG. For example refer to https://developer.tizen.org/development/guides/web-application/application-management/application-information-and-controls/widget-information.

This documentation explicit mentions that this is available for wearable web applications. After a lot of frustration I was able to get a response from a Samsung developer. His answer: “getContent() for web widgets is, unfortunately, not supported. We understand that the document[see above]can be misleading”. Seriously? Samsung writes documentation for this, implements all interfaces but it is not intended to work – with no error and no exception?

Unfortunately this is not the only case – this is just INACEPPTABLE, even more as the situation got worse over the last year.

Seller Office

The seller office is in fact nothing than a PAID service offered by Samsung to devs. I mean we actually pay them 30% of our income so one could expect some service level. It started already with the registration where you have to send in a copy of a passport issued by the government. My passport, just like the ones from many other countries, is written in multiple languages, also in English. Unfortunately my request has been declined multiple times as “it has to be in English or Korean”. I had to tell them multiple times that this is an official document issued by the government and it they do not only read the first word they could see clearly that English is there as well. What are they doing over there? Was this the first time they’ve seen a non-Korean passport?!?

Then there is the duration of the certification progress. Sometimes it takes 3 days, sometimes it takes 3 weeks and for 2 times I had to tell them that one of my apps was stuck in the progress. Response: “that can happen”.

The next thing that happened was their own miserable store. If you’ve ever uploaded a beta of your app, you know that when you get the email to download the app from the store you’ll first get an error. After ~10 minutes you can successfully download the app. unfortunately their so called “testers” do know nothing about that and rejected the app because it caused errors in the store. I’ve simply reuploaded the app, waited 3 weeks and everything went well.

But it gets worse: once they had screwed their own store, so it did not recognize a privilege I am using. I asked what’s wrong and they told me that this privilege has now another name. So I changed it, reuploaded the app and it failed once again (took again 3 weeks). When I asked them again they said that their response was wrong as they had internal issues and as they have seen that I’ve already reuploaded the app they, they did don’t think they have to notice me.

Btw: as they do not have the required hardware to test my app they let it pass anyway – I have no clue what those “testers” are doing over there. For that that they get 30% they offer a TERRIBLE service.

 

Community

I do not know why this is the case but unlike other communities, this one is entirely useless! Most questions are answered totally wrong: either the response has nothing to do with the question or the response contains 1:1 the same code of the question. Srsly, are there so many ignorants or does nobody understand English?!? Every community has its flaws, but during my entire career I’ve never seen such a community. To be honest, I do not think that there are any capable devs in here…

 

Dear Samsung,

If you ever want Tizen to compete with other platforms you have to make huuuuge steps forward. This platform, it’s tools and its support can only be described as “early alpha”, “work in progress” or to be fair: “crap”. Seriously, we can clearly see that Samsung is not a software company (do you even try?). But this is just my opinion which is why I am out – good luck with Tizen.

 

 

Bye,

Philippe

Responses

24 Replies
Peter Wegner

Bye Phillippe.

 

Thanx for open letter.

 

Best Regards

Boštjan Mrak

Hi Phillipe,

I'm new at Tizen mobile platform (and also my first post at this forum), but I have developed couple of wearable apps for Tizen in past. So far I had no issues with mobile app validation process. If app has no issues, validation takes around 4 working days (if you update app to new version validation takes half that time). The only strange thing is, when app has issues, the validation process time is the same and with revalidation it takes another 4 days. But that's acceptable, I don't want to see bugs in my apps out in the wild :) no mater if bugs are platform specific.

About this forum and documentation: I get my answers from other forums/resources. Solutions are everywhere, Tizen web app development is pure old html5 (from older specs), and as 15 years as web/mobile developer I can say guys at linux foundation has made good job in html5 support. Sure it could be better, but as evolving platform it's good enough.

I was on Bada platform and I see Tizen as new iteration. Bada had good support, as I can recall, and development in native and documentation was better than in android. I can not say that's true for Tizen as I had not try to develop native app yet, but I expect not to be much worse.

About 30%: Tizen store is currently without commission (0%) and without subscription! On iOS you have 99$/year subscription and 30% commission. Android has no subscription and also has 30% commission. I don't see your point, android has no testers and no direct support, on iOS you will also recieve just superficial response with link to their huge documentation and guidelines.

Tizen is great as wearable plafrom and as platform and it's flexibility to run on many devices is also superior to other "platforms"! If they integrate some IoT hardware (LoRa) I can see clear win over other platforms. I don't think samsung is trying to compete with other platforms at least for mobile, but Tizen already dominates in wearable and TV platform, and that's a good thing.

Regards and all good to Tizen platform.

Bostjan Mrak

Philippe Wechsler
Hi Mrak,
I disagree with you:
1) the store validation can take only 4 days, but in my expirience (i've uploaded multiple apps and provided many updates) there is a high cance that it takes more thankl 2-3 weeks.
2) It is simply wrong that they are testing that much. One of my apps had an obvious bug that they did not find (ok, the same applied to myself as I should have seen the bug as well). My best selling app is a philips hue app where they do not have the equippement to test so they simply accept a video. So they cannot test the app as they do not have a philis hue setup, np with that, but what do they test then? Exactly: nothing but it takes 2-3 weeks?
3) Yes it is mostly plain Html5, but not everything. I was refering mainly TAU and some Tizen specific implementation such as the WidgetServiceManager. In both cases the documentation is partially missing, wrong or incomplete. The implementation is just not correct. For example one documentation page says a particular feature is supported for wearable web apps while another says no. The implementation on the other side exist on wearable web but it just returns always empty objects. That is just not acceptable. Either the feature is supported or not. If it is then all documentation has to mention the same and the implementation must be functional. If it is not supported the implementation should not exist or at least throw an error. Everything else is just nothing what professional devs do.
4) If I have problems related to Html/Css/Js I cant get help anywhere, here I agree with you. But if it is Tizen related then this is the only place and if it is not a trivial question - you wont get an answer here.
5) I do not see where you get that the commision is free for Tizen, I always had to pay 30%
6) Tizen might be able to run on many platforms, but it's way less attractive compared to other ones. Developing for Tizen is a pain-in-the-ass and the user base is very small.
7) I don't think Tizen dominates anywhere. TV it might have a large install base but to be honest: did you ever see anyone actually use it? The store almost empty. On wearables it might have steady user base but it is clearly not dominating. My app was in the top 5 paid apps for many months in the US and many EU countries - so I acutally claim to have an insight into the market size. It's tiny.
Boštjan Mrak

Thank you for your feedback. I don't have much experience with TAU (as I try to avoid it and use other UI frameworks) and this forum/documentation/store so I belive in your words.

Info about 0% commission: http://seller.tizenstore.com/product/promotion/sellerPromotionAuth.as

 

 

Peter Wegner

6)

Better not compare with other OS...

Tizen is more pain... and less fun.

:(

For all... Developers and End users...

 

 

We will see what happens if SM-Z400F is really launched and really available with Tizen 3.x.x.x

 

No idea if other platform have real commercial device, before Mobile launch...

 

Tizen 3 is under construction since 2013 or earlier...

 

In the next few days... next "surprice" is incoming... next Tizen.NET Preview...

:)

Compatibility and support seems not really first priority of Samsung...

 

Best Regards

John Ixion

Main problem with Samsung: they don't update the firmware (except on phones).

If you buy a Samsung TV today, it's a 2016 (or even a 2015) model, which is obsolete:

http://developer.samsung.com/tv/develop/specification/general-features

If you write a webRTC app for instance, it will only run on 2017 models...

Samsung has zero respect for customers and devs

 

 

check the model year of your TV

John Ixion

It's even worse with wearables: I've bought a Gear Fit2 (my first Samsung device btw): a great device but a Samsung bureaucrat has decided that third-party apps wouldn't be allowed on it - zero respect for customers and devs...

They have great hardware but they simply don't know how to build an ecosystem...

Slawek Kowalski

Even worse. I made a few WGT apps, watch faces for Gear Fit 2 (excellent hardware) becuase - as you said - UI apps was not allowed by Samsung. And after a few weeks Samsung forbid WGT at all too. I couldn't upgrade existed apps. Customers write to me and ask for upgrade and I can't do that and must explain them why, again and again. Why Samsung why?

Łukasz Grabiec

I have the same situation. I cannot update my WGT watch face for Gear Fit 2.

For now they allow only native C watch faces.

My customers cannot understand how this is possible...

John Ixion

1) main complaint about Tizen wearables is the lack of apps

2) GF2 is by far the best-selling Tizen device

3) the idiot who has decided to refuse apps on it should be fired...

Slawek Kowalski

3) the idiot who has decided to refuse apps on it should be fired...

Most probably this idiot blindly believes that all is OK and be honest they don't care about 3rd party developers. Samsung sinks in bureaucracy I suppose.

John Ixion

And it's even worse on mobile: Samsung has just released Samsung Pay in India, Tizen phone's main market.

Samsung Pay is not available on Tizen phones, of course...

Samsung also sells wearables in India: no Gear Manager on Tizen phones, of course...

Slawek Kowalski

And still missing SAP (Samsung Acessory Protocol) on Tizen phones. It is great library to change data between phones and wearable. So far available only for Android.

John Ixion

My conclusion: Tizen is probably one of the worst managed projects I've ever seen: sometimes I wonder if anyone is in charge of this project and it's ecosystem. Samsung is just a gigantic bureaucracy: they like big dev conferences but apart from that - zero communication with devs. The upper management talks about "being a software company" ... LOL

Boštjan Mrak

Just for info to not scare off developers that are crucial part for making Tizen better.

I have requested commercial seller status yesterday and they approved it in less than a day. I have one app already validated and two in validation process, first app was approved in 3 working days, for other two I'm waiting 2 days...not weeks, but days. I know from my past experience in bada platform that complex apps needs more time for validation, as expected, but complex apps hardly survive in lowbudget markets.

I'm not surprised that Gear Manager is not available - probably smartwatch is not something Tizen mobile users have.
For Gear Fit 2 - I can understand their decision, gear fit is fitness tracker and not smartwatch - software is the same, but device usage is different (and less expensive as smartwatch).

But I'm not sure why Samsung Pay is not available - maybe it will be in couple of weeks, maybe they too need to validate their apps by testers and wait 2-3 weeks as some developers :)

As for other concerns I totaly agree with you all. Tizen has so much potential, but only good support to devs&users can make it better.

Kind regards

 

 

Bojan Skaljac

Interesting text. There are many good observations in comments and in text.

I would like to share some of my experience with certification team. I have a lot of different issues with them, but I want to be brief so this is just one example.

I have Marble Maze game on wearable store. The game have alot of downloads and it is played with accelerometer, so there is no need to touch screen, and because of that, device will turn off screen in a middle of a gameplay. So certification team did not want to let game on TS until I call "always on function" so that players will gonna play the game without interruption. And after many many downloads one day, certification team have remove my game from the store with complaint "the game never turn off the screen". After that I have never upload the game to the TS :-)

Chris Davies
 

This is all great feedback, I'm personally brand new to tizen and the documentation is utterly crap. 

Personally I would expect Samsung to invest heavily in creating the tizen environment to grow the business model for the future but it appears to be the the opposite case for tizen!

Even the tizen IDE is utterly unacceptable.

Anyway, lots of valid feedback here - but is anything being done about it???? Is there anybody from the tizen developers world who can at lease acknowledge the posts and let people know they are being listened to by a customer focused business????

Are there any Samsung execs reading this?

Would be nice to know we are being listened to!

Chris

 

Yo Shakya

Tizen Studio 1.1.1 => still unstable. consumes lots of cpu on cierra. will lose connection with device every now and then. can't connect with emulator 2.3. is useless to work with if your code size is anywhere above 5k lines of codes. 

Tizen Forums => nobody gives $hit to any of developers complaints/feedback here. 

Tizen Documentation => Can't rely on it because it misguides you on multiple times, does not tell in plain yes/no if a given API should be treatd as documented/undocumented.

Tizen Review Team => Biggest JOKE on the third planet. Won't understand anything related to software. Aren't willing to listen what you say. Believes in sending same 4-5 BS lines in every single f_c_i_g reply. Will notify you bug one by one per review cycle, often lengthening the review process to 2-3 weeks. 

Tizen Ecosystem => Not happening

Tizen Apps => Cockroach prank, cocky pranks, and more stupid pranks. Samsung loves to prank both it's developers and it's end users. 

Bottomline => Quit developing for Tizen. 

Onur Şahin

Another addition to the "Why Tizen is crap" topic https://www.sammobile.com/2017/04/03/security-researcher-says-that-tizen-is-a-hackers-dream-has-40-unknown-zero-day-vulnerabilities/

“It may be the worst code I’ve ever seen. Everything you can do wrong there, they do it. You can see that nobody with any understanding of security looked at this code or wrote it. It’s like taking an undergraduate and letting him program your software.”

Yo Shakya

Another thing about tizen studio => while debugging the c code, just try Cast to type 2-3 times, and it will hang (on mac book cierra). The only way to recover it force start studio. But guess what, the freeze will happen again if you cast to type. Tizen studio is the crappiest dev ide samsung has thrown at devs. 

Jason Kim

Ouch. I should have read this thread beforehand.  Why none of Samsung representatives replied to this thread?

 

Peter Wegner

They are busy with doing more "amazing" Tizen stuff...

:)

Maybe they are working hard on Tizen 10 or 11 or 12 or... at the same time.

 

Best Regards

John Ixion

Samsung is an expert in open source theory but they forget the main part: communication.

Their own dev forum is full of spammers btw: they simply don't care...

John Ixion

just an example: in March 2016 they officially announce React Native for Tizen 3.0

 

https://youtu.be/bHqcHgxMGkE

 

impossible to know what happened to this project: you never get a reply...